SPEERS: Okay, but you did indicate there that there will be more from the Government this week on access to termination services in public hospitals?

GALLAGHER: Not beyond what I've just said to you. We've made the investment into public hospitals. So, they're funded to do the job that they need to do and those state and territory governments make decisions there. Our area of responsibility is to make sure in terms of medical terminations that the right support is there, and as I said, in the last few years, we have seen improved access to medical terminations.

SPEERS: But this Senate report did say, all public hospitals within Australia should be equipped to provide surgical pregnancy terminations or affordable pathways to other local providers. Will that happen?

GALLAGHER: Well, that is a matter for the state and territory governments. We don't tell them what services that they do or don't provide.

SPEERS: It used to be Labor policy that you would.

GALLAGHER: There was a policy in 2019. Our policy now is to fund the public hospitals properly, state and territory governments make those decisions about what services are offered. Here in the ACT for example, surgical terminations are free and provided and in most jurisdictions, you'll see access to medical terminations, including support services for women that want to access them.

SPEERS: Now, you're also the Minister for Finance. You have to make all of this add up, ultimately. So, today's announcement, 1.7 billion announced the other day on hospitals -

GALLAGHER: That's a one-year agreement.

SPEERS: Okay. So, look, this is on top of I think 92 billion in savings across the budgets that we've been responsible for. And I think that shows you how serious we are about it. But it also means we've got the Budget in better shape, debt's lower and interest payments on the debts are lower so that we can invest in areas like women's health, that's the whole point of finding savings.

SPEERS: But the spending generally has continued to increase. Your latest budget forecast was for spending to hit 27.2 per cent of GDP next financial year, the highest level in 40 years outside of the pandemic. Will it now be even higher based on the spending that we've seen over the last month or two?

GALLAGHER: Well, if we're talking about some of the announcements, they've been factored into our thinking and published through the Mid-Year Economic Update that we released in December -

SPEERS: But there's been more since then -

GALLAGHER: So again, we are finding, where we can find savings, that is offsetting new spending. But I would also say, David, the Budget is under significant pressure. And it's in those areas we've talked about before. So, NDIS, Defence, hospitals, aged care and government debt. They are the 5 big areas of pressure. We've made good reforms on NDIS and aged care, so that'll help over the medium term. We'll see those impacts improve the Budget. And areas like Defence, where we've had to make additional investments in our national interest -

SPEERS: Peter Dutton is concerned about the growth in the public service. He says it should not rise about 200,000. I think your Budget says it will get to 209,000 this financial year. Is there a point at which it is too big? Is there an upper limit that you would suggest for the public service?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think the public service is well resourced now to do its job. It's taken us about two and a half years to get it to that point. But Peter Dutton's saying he wants to sack 36,000 staff from the public service, and that would have us return to Robodebt, it would have us return to contractors and consultants running the show, and it would mean poorer services for people. Because the areas we've invested in are those frontline services and we're making a difference. Like, veterans, for example, waiting over a year to even have their case considered, all of that - the backlog of 42,000 veterans claims, all of that is allocated now. And it happened because we put people in the right jobs to do the work.

SPEERS: Is 209,000 enough? 220,000, 250,000 would be too many?

GALLAGHER: Well, I've said I think we've resourced it properly now. I think we have got -

SPEERS: So, it doesn't need to grow beyond 209,000?

GALLAGHER: I don't believe so. And I've looked at this pretty carefully. Again, I've come into a public service that was weak, under-resourced and had a lot of problems and it wasn't delivering services for people, which is the whole purpose of having a public service. And so, we've gone systematically through each department. Now, Peter Dutton likes to stomp around the country and say he'll cut 36,000 jobs from Canberra. The reality is if he does that, it's people out in the regions and other places right around the country who will suffer.

SPEERS: Sounds like you are planning to hand down a budget in just over six weeks?

GALLAGHER: Well, we're doing a lot of work, David. A lot of ERC meetings at the moment.

SPEERS: The usual schedule you'd be doing at this point?

GALLAGHER: Well, it's a March budget, so we're in the thick of it. There's a lot of ERC meetings. Jim and I have worked over the summer, the Treasurer and I, to make sure that we're getting the job done, but as you would expect, it's a pretty busy time for the Treasurer and Finance Minister right now.

SPEERS: It sounds like it. Look, just a couple of other issues. Labor shifted position during the week on mandatory sentencing, under pressure of course from Peter Dutton. The Labor party's platform makes it very clear that mandatory sentencing, quote, does not reduce crime but does undermine the independence of the judiciary, leads to unjust outcomes and is often discriminatory in practice. Why do you disagree with your own party platform?

GALLAGHER: Well, we don't apologise for trying to get the best and strongest laws through the Parliament with the most support possible. I mean, we've led the way on the hate crimes legislation, remember we had Peter Dutton running around trying to weaken those in relation to 18C and also voted against our doxxing legislation, anti-doxxing legislation. So, we wanted this legislation to come, to be as strong as possible and have as much support as possible across the Parliament. I think that's what the country expects and needs and we're responding to issues, you know, horrific and awful rise of anti-Semitism across the country that I have never witnessed in my lifetime and I think it's appropriate that the Parliament responds to that.

SPEERS: But is there any evidence that mandatory sentencing works?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think you have to govern for right here, right now.

SPEERS: What does that mean?

GALLAGHER: Well, what we're seeing right now is the rise of anti-Semitism. This is not Australia, this is not the Australia I know -

SPEERS: And will mandatory sentencing work?

GALLAGHER: I think sending a very strong deterrence to anyone who's contemplating it, thinking about it, taking part in it is absolutely appropriate.

SPEERS: So, you think it'll work?

GALLAGHER: Well, the laws are there now, David. The Parliament's had its say, and it passed, and indeed it passed with tripartisan support, with the Greens backing it in through the Senate on Thursday.

SPEERS: Just a final one, the State byelections I mentioned in Victoria yesterday, I want to ask you about Werribee in particular. I know it's a state byelection, but Labor did cop a big hit with its primary vote down 16.7 per cent. What message do you take from that?

GALLAGHER: Well, you know, obviously we - politicians, we have a look at what happens. State byelection, I mean I don't think it changes anything for us federally. We're focused on cost-of-living, making sure we're building a better future for Australia and I think the contest will be really clear at the election. It'll be plans to invest in Medicare, our plans to do that and to support Australians through the cost-of-living pressures, or the other side, which wants to cut $350 billion, slash the public service, build nuclear reactors all around the country some time in the future. That'll be a real choice for people.

SPEERS: Just to pick up on what you said, this doesn't change anything for Labor?

GALLAGHER: Well, because our plans will remain cost-of-living, providing help where we can, getting on with doing the things we need to do in Medicare and in infrastructure and working with state and territory governments, and we'll continue to sell that message and invest in those services and I think the contrast between what we are doing under Prime Minister Albanese's leadership and what Peter Dutton is threatening to do with cuts will make a real choice for people at the election.

SPEERS: Katy Gallagher, thanks for joining us.

GALLAGHER: Thanks very much, David.

ENDS