ACT FEDERAL LABOR TEAM

ANDREW BARR MLA 
CHEIF MINISTER OF THE ACT  

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
DOORSTOP INTERVIEW
CANBERRA
SUNDAY, 6 APRIL 2025

SUBJECTS: Labor’s announcement to fund a new convention centre for Canberra; Dutton’s cuts; International student caps; Territory representation.

ALICIA PAYNE, MEMBER FOR CANBERRA: Good morning, everyone. I'm Alicia Payne, Member for Canberra, and it's wonderful to be here today with my ACT Labor colleagues, Senator Katy Gallagher, Andrew Leigh and David Smith, and Chief Minister Andrew Barr. We've just launched our ACT Labor campaign for the federal election, but what is really exciting today is that we've announced shared funding of $200 million to build a new convention centre and aquatic centre for Canberra. Now for many, many years it has been embarrassing that our city hasn't had a convention centre fitting of a nation's capital, where we can host international conferences. I don't want to trash on the current convention centre, but they're turning away a lot of business and it is not set up for the things that we would want to host here in the national capital. This has been an ongoing campaign over probably about 20 years from our business community and tourism leaders. And I'm so pleased that today our Federal Government and ACT Government are announcing that we are working together to make this happen.

I, as the Member for Canberra, have been very proud to advocate over a long time for a new convention centre, including as the Chair of the Joint Parliamentary Committee into the National Capital and External Territories. I chaired an inquiry into the significance of the nation's capital and what the Federal Government can do to promote that. Of course, key among the recommendations was that the Federal Government help fund a new convention centre for Canberra. So, I couldn't be more pleased today with this announcement. And it's just one of the things that the Albanese Labor Government is doing for our city. We are a government that gets Canberra, and we haven't had that for a long time. And obviously, when you just compare with the Opposition leader – who is so hostile towards our city and the hardworking people who live here, who wants to cut 41,000 jobs of hardworking public servants from this city, which won't just affect our city, but all Australians – and you compare that to our Government, who is investing in this because when you build the nation's capital, you are building the nation. Our city belongs to all Australians, and I'll be so proud that we are going to have this new convention centre and aquatic centre, and I cannot wait to see it. And I'm really pleased now to hand over to Senator Katy Gallagher.

KATY GALLAGHER, SENATOR FOR THE ACT: Thanks very much Alicia, and to all my colleagues here, Dave, Andrew, and the Chief Minister, for being here and being part of this announcement today. And I specifically want to acknowledge the work that Alicia Payne has done as Chair of a committee that handed down a landmark report into how to invest and support Canberra. And this was one of those key projects, the National Convention Centre Worthy of the Nation's Capital, but also looking at how we enable that. So, a new Canberra aquatic centre, new Civic pool in Commonwealth Park, again investing in Commonwealth Park, but also in the facilities we need for Canberra's future. So, it's been such a great opportunity to work with the ACT government. Andrew and I, the Chief Minister and I, have been around when ACT Government and Commonwealth haven't always been on the same page. And we've had governments that didn't care about Canberra. And to have the opportunity in the last three years really to sit down and say, look, how can we work together, how can we deliver a project that works for this city? The convention centre was always a project that needed two governments. It should never have been just the ACT Government on its own. Looking at how it could deliver this and the opportunity to work with Andrew and to really find the room in the budget to invest in a project like this, to match the funding from the ACT government. It's no small sum, $200 million, $100 million from the ACT, I know that's hard worked to find that and $100 million from the Commonwealth to get this project going. So exciting, and I can't wait to get to the next stage. And I know that for many Canberrans that want to see the nation's capital grow and continue to evolve as a great city, a nation's capital, this will be one of those enabling projects.

Can I just make a couple of comments about Peter Dutton and his attitude to Canberra? I don't think we've ever seen a Leader of the Opposition who every single day, singles out one city in Australia to punch it down. It is extraordinary that this man has so much disrespect for this city. In the last week, he's now saying 41,000 jobs will go, he'll abolish the Education and Health departments because he's not sure what they do. Well, they run Medicare and childcare and skills and training all of those services. He doesn't see any need for them. He only wants Canberra-based workers to return to the office, because he knows that his working from home policy has really gone down like a lead balloon right around the country. This is the man that wants to be Prime Minister. Now, it's a very clear contest between the four of us that stand here, working with the ACT Government and our plans for Canberra, and Peter Dutton and what he would do to this city. We would be much, much worse off this city would be decimated under Peter Dutton and his policies. He singles us out. He disrespects our workers. He disrespects small business, and our city can't afford the risk that this man presents.

ANDREW BARR, CHIEF MINISTER OF THE ACT: Thank you. Thank you, Katy, and to Alicia, David and Andrew, thank you for today's announcement. Just a short bit of history in relation to this. In 2019, the ACT Labor government put forward a long-term infrastructure plan for our city post-COVID. We updated that plan and at last year's Territory election, we took the proposals that are part of today's announcement to Territory voters. We've received endorsement for that at the ballot box both in 2020 after the 2019 plan release and again in 2024. We've been working with our federal colleagues, and particularly since 2022, to jointly fund a number of the projects in that original infrastructure plan. So, the history of this goes back some time there and progress has been made on a number of projects in that 2019 plan, not least of which is the extension of light rail, the Woden CIT, where there's a Commonwealth contribution, and a number of other big and important infrastructure projects for our city. But today's announcement is a game changer to address two of the most challenging areas that we face in putting that plan together. Firstly, replacing an ageing aquatic facility that was built for the Melbourne 1956 Olympics. So, what we want to see, and we will see now is the new Canberra aquatic facility built well ahead of the 2032 Brisbane Olympics. And that then makes way for a site large enough to accommodate the new convention and entertainment centre. And the key points here are that our current convention centre is at capacity. So, there's a popular centre, more events want to come there, but it's just at capacity. So, we need a bigger venue that can accommodate multiple conferences at the same time and also larger conferences that the current centre is just not big enough to accommodate. Equally though, our city lacks a major indoor entertainment venue. Great work to see the AIS Arena reopened, and that's a really important piece of infrastructure for our city, as we've seen already this week. But it's at the small side of entertainment arenas. And so, as part of this project, the city also gets an indoor entertainment venue with the capacity of around 8,000 seats. What that means is that we're back on the touring schedule for live music, we can host major indoor sporting events that are just too big for the AIS Arena, and we can host a variety of other forms of live entertainment. So, it will be a game changer for our city’s tourism, business events, hospitality, economy. And this infrastructure is all located along the Stage 2A light rail extension. So, it brings together a long-term vision for better public transport infrastructure, building our CBD and supporting key elements of our economy that bring in external revenue that diversify our city's economic activity. And it's really a vote of confidence in long-term infrastructure planning. That's what I think we are most pleased to see, in terms of the convention centre, the first stages of work had been funded by the ACT Government and we're well into some bite detailed specification work with key stakeholders. The stage that is being funded now will enable us to get it to shovel ready status. It's an expensive proposition, a project of this scale and a precinct of this scale. And as Katy indicated, it's only possible in partnership between the Territory and Federal Government. Those with a view of a history of this project and convention facilities will know it has been proposed before, but up to this point has failed to receive Commonwealth government support. So, the project simply couldn't proceed. That changes with this announcement, allows us to get on with a new aquatic facility for the whole of the territory and a national convention and exhibition and entertainment centre that will support such a diverse range of activities for Canberra’s future. So, a really good outcome for Canberra. One that's only possible are the two levels of government working together and only possible essentially, frankly because of two Labor working together.

JOURNALIST: You said shovel ready. When is that going to be and what do you expect the total cost of the actual construction of the precinct to be?

BARR: Sure. So, in the infrastructure plan that we outlined in the post-COVID update, we looked at escalation and construction costs and potentially staging the project. The indicative costs for stage one were up to about $250 million and then $500 million for stage two. So, we're talking about a total cost of around $750 million, then need to add a construction escalation cost. The work that's been funded now that will take place over the next few years will get us to the point that we could put a construction tender out to the market. We won't know the final cost obviously until we see the tenderers bid back. And our process for engaging construction partners has tendered to involve what's called early contractor involvement. And that's the model we've pursued with the Canberra Hospital build, we're pursuing with the Canberra Theatre Build, and we've already announced very early contractor involvement associated with the new North Commonwealth Hospital. So, it'll follow a familiar infrastructure development path. The money from the Commonwealth today matched by the Territory Government will enable us to get to that point over the next three years or so.

JOURNALIST: Will it be the ACT Government who foots that bill in the end?

BARR: The final construction cost – so, we would need to partner with the Commonwealth to deliver that. So, there will be, but not in the next few years because the work that has been funded to date will cover all of the costs for the project up to the point that we're ready to go to construction tender. At that point, clearly, we will be asking the Commonwealth for further support for the project.

JOURNALIST: And so how can voters be sure that they will see this project to completion?

BARR: Well, vote for us. We are committed to it. We're the originators of the idea. We've brought this forward, on to this stage, funded it to this point. No one else has any viable alternative proposals that have any chance of receiving funding, either at the territory or federal level. And in relation to the first part of the project, the pool, the money, the $70 million or thereabouts that’s provided, that’s the Commonwealth share of that, plus the land in Commonwealth Park – that's half the funding. We put the other half of the funding up. That project needs to be built first. That's what will occur first.

JOURNALIST: There's a lot of asks that you've got at the moment. Not just this, but the next stage of light rail, which will stay there down the track. Will you keep going back to the Commonwealth for each of these projects or are you looking at something like a public private partnership that delivers [INDISTINCT] Sydney?

BARR: Well, I'm not sure that the public sector comparator would demonstrate value for a PPP provider for a project at that scale. In our city, part of the challenge there just isn't a sufficient revenue stream. So, we'd be making a very large availability payment to the private sector finance sector and frankly, the cost of borrowing at a Commonwealth or Territory level is going to be lower. So, as a starting point, it's not a way of funding a project and not having it appear on your balance sheet or not having to make significant payments in order to achieve its delivery. I'm not sure there's enough unique in the convention centre build where a private sector finance here and constructor would add so much extra value that that would offset the additional costs of going down that PPP path. So, I would say public sector, early contractor involvement, design and construction elements, and then a construction tender would be how we would procure it. But part of the work that has been funded in this announcement, you’ll find is [INDISTINCT]

GALLAGHER: Can I just add to that? Sorry, Andrew. Since we came to government and as a Commonwealth Government, we want to work with the ACT Government on infrastructure requirements. That's what happens everywhere else around the country. It wasn't happening here. We were at best ignored, at worst we faced cuts. And so, if you look at our history in the last three years, the AIS rebuild, the Arena investment partnering on light rail, we've got this significant announcement, we've got the National Security Office Precinct underway. I think you get the approach that we are taking, which is Canberra deserves as much investment in infrastructure as any other place around Australia. And that's what'll continue. We don't proceed down this path on the convention centre with the view that that's it from us, this announcement today. I mean, why would you fund something to a business case if you're not prepared to go the full journey with it? We know that this is an important project for our city, but importantly, not just locally. It's important as the nation's capital if we to have international events here at the moment, that's not possible. We don't think that's right for a place like Canberra.

JOURNALIST: Minister, in the Senate, are you actually under serious threat from the Liberals considering they're running dead with the policies to slash the public service, whether through attrition or otherwise? Isn’t your quest for votes elsewhere? What are you actually asking of voters?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think I've always approached every election I've stood as a candidate in as a real contest. And I think any politician that thinks that they're automatically elected or not under any threat is not approaching it in the right way. So, I approach every election – I take nothing for granted. It's the same way I've operated since I started standing for election in the Senate. Obviously, we've got a very popular independent who, a large part of his vote comes from traditional Labor and Greens supporters who think Labor is okay. And so, they can go and make sure a Liberal doesn't get into power or get elected to the Senate. And that represents a challenge. And I don't underestimate that. I think there's a rusted on Liberal vote in this town. It remains to be seen whether that actually shifts in this election, considering the policies that they're taking, which is essentially to ruin the city. So, it remains to be seen, but roughly they have a rusted-on 25 per cent. And I guess from my point of view, I want to make sure that I'm competitive in this campaign, which is why I approach it as I do. But I think you'll see a lot of campaign activity from all of us. We don't take anything for granted.

JOURNALIST: So, we'll see ‘Keep Katy’ signs yet again?

GALLAGHER: Oh, you see a lot of Katy around the place. I'll say, David brought big money to this town. We didn't have it before. You ran a campaign on the smell of an oily rag on fundraising and local events. My campaign was about $20,000. I fundraised all of it myself. I'm in a contest with somebody who spends up to $2 million. And so, we've had to keep pace with that. And so, we've had to do a lot more raising funds to make sure that we can get our message out in the same way that he's done. And I think it's a bit unfortunate that we've got big money in this town in politics, but that's the nature of modern campaigning.

JOURNALIST: Dutton's clearly looking for votes outside Canberra and using Canberra – and it worked for him in the Voice. But could Labor be actually explaining the worth of the back office in the public service better? Because we're all talking about whether to save the frontline or not, but I mean, could Labor be actually selling the worth of the public service better in the wider populace?

GALLAGHER: Well, I think there's easy politics beating up public servants. We get that, and I think we've chosen the approach which is to support and respect and rebuild our public service. So, we are trying to get that message out and the value of the entire public service where national security agencies, the running of Medicare, the administering of the childcare system, all of that happens. And I think he's in a terrible position where he is saying he's going to exempt all frontline workers, which means he's having to say all the jobs are coming here and these jobs are worth less than jobs elsewhere. And that's our job is to stand up for the public service, stand up for jobs in Canberra and stand up for the value of the public service as an entire organisation. You can't do the front office jobs if there's no back-office jobs. It just doesn't work. And so, part of my job as I go around the country is to talk to people about that, what that means. We are not avoiding debate around the public service. We are not pretending because it's harder politics in other places that the public service isn't any value. We are dealing with this head on. The PM raises it all the time. And I think most people get it, I do think most people get it. Peter Dutton has to explain why he thinks it's cheap and easy politics, I reckon.

ANDREW LEIGH, MEMBER FOR FENNER: The point that Katy makes is spot on. Luke Gosling and I have a piece today in the NT News, which makes the case that for people who in the Northern Territory, this front office, back-office distinction does not exempt NT public servants. There are many Northern Territory public servants who are working in those supporting roles, exactly the roles that Katy has talked about. So, this is a clear and present danger to every Australian, to all of Australia's public services. And Peter Dutton, if he's elected, is going to be taking leaf out of a US playbook that we are seeing play out right now with real damaging events in that country.

JOURNALIST: Chief Minister, what's the evidence that, should this cut to the public service happen, it would lead to a recession in the ACT?

BARR: Well, I guess you'd point to the last one, which was 1996, a cut of a slightly smaller magnitude. What is being proposed here is effectively 15 per cent of the entire Territory workforce or 60 per cent of all public service positions here in the ACT. So, we've gone to great lengths over the course of this century to seek to diversify our economy, to create employment in a wider range of areas. And the Commonwealth now accounts for about a quarter of all jobs, 70,000 or 270,000 jobs in the Territory. But a cut of this scale is going to take hundreds of millions of dollars out of, if you like, the fortnightly pay cycle. It's going to flow through to businesses, to a really diverse range of areas and activities within our economy. So, no one in Canberra would be immune from this. Some people would think, oh, I don't work in the public service, it won't affect me. It will. And it would send this city back, put us back quite considerably. And as I've commented in there, I don't think I've seen such disrespect for people who go to work every day to work for Australia, to work for this nation. We talk a lot about it and people who serve in the defence forces, and we honour that, rightly, but equally across other areas of public service, people are making similar sacrifices for their nation. Whether you work in defence in a civilian capability, whether you are working in foreign affairs or trade or providing services in Centrelink, you are working for your country to make Australia a better place. And I think it's important that we acknowledge that and that we stand up against an alternative Prime Minister who thinks it's okay to disparage people who go to work every day for their country. I just can't imagine in a federal election campaign, a political leader going to any other part of Australia and saying, we are going to cut 15 per cent of your entire economy's workforce just because we don't like you. Perhaps as a practical personal bit of leadership, Mr Dutton can sack his entire political staff and his entire backroom campaign effort as an example of how apparently you can do all these things without any backroom support. That would be a practical thing he could do to really prove that you could run for Prime Minister without any backroom support. Let's see if he's up for bat.

JOURNALIST: Noting that the PM isn’t here today, is Labor taking ACT voters for granted?

PAYNE: Well, none of us are taking this election for granted. We've all been out doorknocking, doing mobile offices, talking to as many people we can about how incredibly important it is that we do not risk a Dutton government and that we enable the Albanese Labor Government to continue building Australia's future. This is important for the nation and the world, but if we focus for now on our city, we have a government for the first time in over a decade that actually values our city. And today's announcement of building the new convention centre and the Aquatic Centre is a perfect example of this, that we have a Prime Minister who actually understands the value of the nation's capital and we have a government that is actually taking our community seriously. So, this would be an absolute game changer for our businesses, our tourism here in the ACT. It's really going to change our city and make it the international city, the internationally recognised city that it should be. And also bring lots of great entertainment for Canberrans to enjoy that at the moment can’t come here. And to go to what the importance of the nation's capital is and its institutions, we've also had an Opposition leader just say that he wants to live in Kirribilli, and this is bigger than just Canberra-bashing. This shows he has a complete disregard for the institutions, what the role of Prime Minister is about. It's not a lifestyle choice. It's not where do you want to live, what's got the best view, it's about being in proximity to the public service, the parliament and the diplomatic court. So, think about all the diplomats who have moved from across the world to be here close to our leaders and the alternative Prime Minister doesn't even think he needs to be here. When John Howard did that, it was really detrimental to our relations with other countries, but also, we can see that the Opposition leader has no respect for the institution of the public service and the important role that it does both frontline services and the incredibly important work that underpins the good governance of this nation. And I think that is something that our Government, under Katy's leadership, has rebuilt the public service in three years from the disgusting neglect and attacks of the previous government that outsourced wasteful spending on consultants. We show a respect for that work, because our ministers work with the public service and Peter Dutton knows that as well. But it's cheap Canberra bashing and it's not going to apply in this town.

JOURNALIST: So, why did the PM – he didn’t need to be here for the campaign launch today?

GALLAGHER: Well, the PM has supported this investment in Canberra. So, I've worked with him along with my colleagues to do that, and I think it's probably the single biggest investment that's ever been made in a federal election in our city, outside of all the other investments we've made. The PM cares deeply about Canberra. He lives here, he works here. I mean, that is his commitment to Canberra, and I think that speaks for itself and in contrast to Peter Dutton. We all know what he wants to do at our city. And I'd also say one of the first campaign events the Prime Minister did, because I was with him and so was Alicia, was last week in Canberra. So, I don't think anyone can underestimate his interest and support for us, but also this town and the role it plays, he's a traditionalist in our nation's capital. He wants to build our nation's capital. Can I also just quickly say, Peter Dutton should come to this town and he should stare businesses and families in the eye and explain to them why he thinks their jobs are worth less than any other job anywhere else in the country. I challenged Senator Hume to a debate on public service I think two weeks ago. Crickets from them, nothing. They haven't responded and that shows an additional level of disrespect to not be able to even come and look Canberrans in the eye and explain why they think 41,000 jobs should go from the city.

JOURNALIST: Can I just ask a question about the Coalition’s policy on international student caps? Given that Labor had a similar policy the end of last year, will you be bringing that back in the next term of government? And maybe a question for Andrew, for the Chief Minister, what would a cap of 25 per cent of enrolments mean for ANU and for the city, given the financial difficulties that universities have?

GALLAGHER: On the international student caps, I think it's rather extraordinary and shows just how unprepared Peter Dutton is for government, that a policy he actively argued against, voted against, on international student caps, is now his policy. So, let's have a look at what his record was when we actually took this to the Parliament. He said no to it, and now he's offering to say yes to it. We've already done the work, through the fact he obstructed us in the Parliament, to work out a way to ensure that universities and international student numbers were sustainable, from the university point of view and from our immigration point of view. And that's the case. We've already lowered student enrolments in universities through the mechanisms of Jason Clare and Tony Burke have put in place, and now we’re meant to believe Peter Dutton when he said no to this two months ago. And I think again, it goes to the calibre of the person and he's just not ready for government.

JOURNALIST: Sorry, just to clarify, so you're saying that this policy is in effect the same as what Labor's policy is and which it supported?

GALLAGHER: I'm saying that we're already dealing with the issue of international student numbers. We made it clear that we wanted to put some control around international student numbers, they had grown very substantially post COVID. We wanted to do that through legislation. The Coalition said no. We're now doing it through another mechanism and that's already lowering international student numbers at our universities, but it's doing it in a sustainable way and a collaborative way with the university sector. What Peter Dutton is offering is basically cutting it by a certain percentage and something that he didn't support when we put forward a rational policy solution to him to months ago.

BARR: Well, the short answer is, obviously, it’s going to put increased pressure on universities that are struggling at the moment. ANU specifically, though, has not really had a growth model for international student numbers, or in fact student enrolments overall. Pre-COVID Brian Schmidt, the then Vice-Chancellor, set effectively the university to be around the size that it's at the moment. Of course, ANU isn't the only university in Canberra and both UC and UNSW Canberra are poised for future student growth. The key thing through, from our perspective, is to ensure that there is sufficient student accommodation to cater for that as part of both the UC campus master planning and the work that's taken place and indeed with UNSW, more student accommodation on both their campuses is a key part of any growth in student numbers for them. And we've also been active, both nationally and internationally, in working with student accommodation providers who offer student accommodation and are agnostic about the institutions students come from and don't necessarily have to have the student accommodation on the university campus. And there are examples already in our CBD of that sort of student accommodation that currently houses students from ANU, UC, UNSW and other institutions. So, higher education is a vital sector for the ACT economy. It’s our biggest export industry and universities are one of our biggest employers. So, we want to continue to work closely with both the Federal Government and the university sector to see a viable and sustainable pathway for growth for our universities. But equally, we don't want them to become so reliant on international student fees that it undermines the quality of education and puts pressure on local housing markets. So, it's striking the right balance. We think we can do that in Canberra because of the pathway for more student accommodation. So, that's the sort of discussion that we've been having with the Federal Government at the moment, and we would want to continue to have after the election.

JOURNALIST: Minister, will Labor commit to increasing Territory representation in the next term of Parliament?

GALLAGHER: So, it's in our platform and all of us argued for that. We got it into our platform. It's something that came through the JSEM report that Kate Thwaites chaired. I think her recommendation was there'd be further work done in the next Parliament on that. We agreed with that and that is something Labor supports. I think, again, it would be helpful if we didn't have an obstructionist Opposition who made it very clear that they did not support extra representation for the territories. I always feel that electoral reform helps if you've got the majority of the parliament working in the same or moving in the same direction. We didn't have that on that issue with them. And we'll continue to advocate for it. And I am hopeful that that is something we can deliver in the next Parliament. That's the intention of Labor.

JOURNALIST: Hopeful, so –

GALLAGHER: Well, that's our intention. I mean obviously you have to get it through Parliament. We've had the Opposition very clearly say that they don't support that and so if we bring legislation to the Parliament, we would need to win that argument. But it's certainly something that we all support. Thank you.

ENDS