SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER
MINISTER FINANCE
MINISTER FOR WOMEN
MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE
MINISTER FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES

THE HON JASON CLARE MP
MINISTER FOR EDUCATION 

E&OE TRANSCRIPT
PRESS CONFERENCE
PARLIAMENT HOUSE
WEDNESDAY, 2 APRIL 2025

SUBJECTS: Dutton’s cuts to Health and Education; National Curriculum; Australia-United States Trade Relationship.

KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR FINANCE: We've kept unemployment low and we've turned a series of Liberal deficits into Labor surpluses at the same time as we've delivered responsible cost-of-living relief for all Australians. Now we've seen, and we've seen it through the first week of this campaign, that Peter Dutton hasn't supported responsible cost-of-living help for Australians. We know he came after Medicare last time he was in government and had the responsibility, and we can see from comments he's made in the last couple of days that he's planning to do that again. He will come after wages again, leaving people worse off. It's been clear I think, the contest between the Prime Minister and Peter Dutton. It's very clear that Peter Dutton will cut in government. He's said as much. And that will leave households worse off. People will pay the price for that. We know this because he's told us this. He said that he has a list of cuts that he wants to make, but he's not going to tell us until he's in government. We know he's got to cut because he's got to pay for a $600 billion nuclear reactors around the country. He's told us he wants to cut the public service by 41,000. That will mean that services will be worse off. Veterans will be worse off, people using Medicare will be worse off, people walking into Services Australia hubs around the country will be worse off. Yesterday, he told us that he didn't really think we needed a Health department. Well, the Health department runs Medicare. Who do you think runs Medicare? It's run through the Health department. So, we know he plans to cut Medicare. He's also said he wants to cancel work from home, unless of course you're working from Kirribilli. In which case, it's entirely appropriate for him as Prime Minister to work from Kirribilli, but everybody else that's got a hybrid arrangement, working from home, saving costs on petrol and parking and being able to balance up their family responsibilities, well that's going to be off as well. And to cap it all off, he wants to raise taxes. He said he doesn't support Labor's plan to lower income tax. He will raise taxes. So, this is the real contest at this election, and I'll hand to Jason in a minute to go into some more details, it's very clear. Cuts to services, higher income tax, services will be worse off, you'll be worse off because he's got to pay for his nuclear reactors scheme. We know this, he's told us this and we can see it playing out through the campaign.

JASON CLARE, MINISTER FOR EDUCATION: Thanks Katy. Well, yesterday when Peter Dutton said that he was going to cut funding to Health and Education, I thought it was an April Fools' joke. But he's doubled down, he said it again today. This bloke is not a joke, he's a threat. He said he'll cut funding to health, he said he'll cut funding to education. Now, Tony Abbott, when he was campaigning to be Prime Minister in 2013, he said no cuts to health and no cuts to education. Then he was elected Prime Minister, and it was like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Cuts everywhere. Now Peter Dutton is telling us, he's telling you, that if he wins this election, he will cut funding to health and he'll cut funding to education. He'll start with the Department of Health and the Department of Education, but he won't stop there. This will go to cuts to hospitals and cuts to schools as well, because he has to. He's got to cut deep into Medicare and the schools if he's going to get that $600 billion that he needs to build these nuclear reactors that aren't going to work for another 20 years. So, it's now very, very clear from what Peter Dutton said yesterday and again today. Peter Dutton will cut and you will pay. Parents will pay, patients will pay, kids will pay, all Australians will pay for this $600 billion worth of nuclear reactors.

JOURNALIST: Can I ask a question -- another election campaign, another fight over school curriculums. I'm just wondering as Education Minister, have any parents ever raised concerns with you about this alleged indoctrination or alleged woke classrooms? And to what extent as Education Minister can you intervene or address this?

CLARE: I tell you what, parents come up to me asking about, how are we going to make sure that our kids learn to read and write and count? How do we make sure that more kids finish high school? They don't talk about indoctrination. This is straight out of the United States. This is a cut and paste from the United States. This is cut and paste. Let's be very, very clear about what's going on here. But Peter Dutton talks about the curriculum -- message to Peter Dutton, the curriculum is the Liberal Party's curriculum. They signed this curriculum three years ago yesterday. He talks like this curriculum was written by Adam Bandt. Wrong. I'm not interested in fake fights or talking about indoctrination. I'm making sure and I'm focused on making sure that our kids learn to read and write and count, that kids who fall behind catch up and keep up and finish high school. The Liberal Party ripped the guts out of funding for public schools when they were last in office, $30 billion worth, and we're still feeling the consequences of that today. This is personal for me. I'm a kid who grew up going to public school. I know the kids who are suffering today as a result of the cuts that Tony Abbott, Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton made. As a result of those cuts, the number of kids finishing high school today in public schools is going backwards, from 83 per cent 10 years ago to 73 per cent today. We've got to turn that around. That funding is about fixing that. And I'm not interested in these fake fights about indoctrination. It's not what mums and dads are talking to me about.

JOURNALIST: Question for Minister Gallagher. There's a story of in The Australian today about a briefing that Minister Farrell gave business about negotiations with the US over the Liberation Day tariffs, that Australia made an offer that was on critical minerals that was rejected, and that the US made an offer that was rejected in turn. Can you confirm any of those details and where are negotiations with the US up to?

GALLAGHER: I haven't seen that story, but I do know and I think we've been very clear that we've been working through our established channels to explain to the US the Australian Government's position and to respond to issues that they raised with us. So, I think that's pretty standard in these types of negotiations or discussions that are underway. We've made it clear to the US, and I think PM has made it pretty publicly -- standing up for Australian's national interest. We don't want to see the Americanisation of our health system. We won't negotiate on the PBS, on biosecurity, on the News Media Bargaining Code. These are non-negotiables for us. Obviously, they'll have announcements within the next 24 hours or so, and I'm sure there'll be questions about that tomorrow. But we've been very clear with them what we stand for and the fact that we serve the Australian people.

JOURNALIST: The Fair Work Commission is independent. Is it important to be honest with the Australian people here, you're not actually setting higher wages?

GALLAGHER: Well, governments provide submissions to the Fair Work Act. And again this is a contrast between a Labor government and a Coalition government. When they were in government, they used to provide a submission and they would argue the case for low wages. They would say low wages are a very important part of the economy. They had a whole section of it in their submission. You wouldn't be surprised that the Labor government, we stand up for jobs and we stand up for good wages for people working. And for those on the minimum wage, you would expect us to argue for a good wage outcome. We don't specify the figure. That is, as you say, the Fair Work Commission's job to determine what that is. But government can lean in and can give an indication of what we think is in the best interest of the economy and as part of that, we want to see minimum wage earners get a real wage increase as well.

JOURNALIST: Peter Dutton has suggested that there is a lot of fat to cut when it comes to the Department of Education. Is that the case and what would be part of the consequences of cutting public servants from your department?

CLARE: Well, first Peter Dutton needs to work out how many people there are at the Department of Education. He was saying this morning that he could cut thousands and thousands of people from the Department of Education. There are 1,700 people in the Department of Education, so less than 2000. So, first I think he needs to get his facts straight. Second, he needs to learn a little bit more about what they do. The Department of Education is responsible for compliance of childcare centres. They're responsible for the integrity of that system to make sure that taxpayers don't get ripped off, that mums and dads don't get ripped off. The money we've put in there, the people that we've put in there, have helped to make sure that we're saving taxpayers money. That's an important investment. One, an investment to make childcare cheaper for Aussies. We've done that for a million Australians now, we've cut the cost of childcare, but that compliance work is critical. My department, the Department of Education, is also responsible for making sure that we fund our schools properly and making sure that the money goes to the school and also responsible for making sure that we regulate our universities properly. Education is the most powerful cause for good and it's important that we've got a system in place to drive reform, make sure more kids finish high school and can go on to pay for university. If Peter Dutton doesn't get that, he's spending too much time, frankly, talking to Liberal Party branch members rather than talking to ordinary Aussies. Just to James' question a moment ago, people aren't talking about indoctrination here. A couple of days ago we announced funding for the training of more doctors in Brisbane. Yesterday, we announced more funding for the training of more nurses in Adelaide. We're focused on training more doctors, nurses, he's focused on indoctrination. And if you ask me what's the biggest and most important thing that we need to do in higher education, it's cutting the cost of a university degree by cutting HECS debt by 20 per cent. That's what we'll do if we win the next election. And I can tell you in those knife-edge seats right around the country that will determine who sits in this room in a couple of weeks’ time, there are tens of thousands of people in those states that have got big HECS debts of 25,000, 30,000, 40,000 bucks. If we win the election, the debts will be cut by 20 per cent. So, I say to young people who are watching today who are thinking of voting Liberal, who are thinking of voting for Peter Dutton, or their moms and dads who know that their children have got a big HECS debt and they're thinking of voting for Peter Dutton too. Well, think about this: if Peter Dutton wins the next election, that HECS debt stays. If Anthony Albanese and the Labor Party win the election in just under five weeks' time, we'll cut that debt by 20 per cent.

JOURNALIST: Minister Gallagher, can I ask you to expand on that? Obviously, we're seeing health and education singled out partially because they have had big staffing increases. Can you explain to voters why you think you've had to put extra staff into agencies and what they've been doing over the past four budgets?

CLARE: I can add to that too, if you want.

GALLAGHER: Well, when we came to government, the public service wasn't resourced properly. It wasn't able to do its job. It was heaving under the pressure of the need to serve the Australian community. So we've put additional investment in health as you would expect a Labor Government to do. And we've been negotiating hospital agreements, working with the states and territories. We've been reforming Medicare, we're getting in thousands of more doctors, opened over 400 new GP practises. Now, when all that happens, you need a department to coordinate that, to make sure it works on the ground to contract those services to work with the PHNs in the health instance. We've got a big focus on integrity in Medicare. I mean, who does Peter Dutton think does this work? They're not like invisible ghosts, just floating around, allowing the system to work. These are public servants that have a serious job to do in safeguarding the taxpayer's money and making sure we deliver services to them. But right across the board, I think one of the biggest scandals of the former government, if you put Robodebt aside -- where we actually hunted down innocent citizens and threatened them with jail for debts they didn't owe, so, if we put that terrible scandal aside -- look what happened to veterans. I mean, I cannot believe that Peter Dutton hasn't responded to his role in that. 42,000 unallocated claims, and we now know the cost of that. What was the cost of that? $13 billion that didn't flow to veterans because they didn't have their claims processed. And who's doing that work? The public service. So, he likes to demonise them, loves to demonise them in Canberra, to beat up my hometown. Maybe the politics for him are fun, but for the veterans out there, for the people who rely on pensions and for those who want the Medicare system to work, these public servants play a critical role.

CLARE: Maybe just to add onto that, in the case in my department, that extra funding is for that compliance work, that integrity work to make sure that childcare operators don't rip off the taxpayer and don't rip off parents. We put a bit more than a hundred million dollars extra funding into that integrity work. It saved the taxpayer more than $300 million. So, that gives you an idea of the value for money you get when you put the investment, put the resources in the right place. Just add to it, you said, Katy, what do you think happens if they sack tens of thousands of public servants? They end up employing tens of thousands of consultants. And instead of someone being paid a $100,000 or $120,000 as a public servant, they get paid $250,000 or more working for PwC. So, you don't save a cent here, you just get a repeat of what Scott Morrison did, and the money that taxpayers have to spend on consultants goes through the roof.

JOURNALIST: The European Commissioner, she said last night, the EU has a plan for retaliatory US tariffs. Why has the Government completely ruled out the option of retaliating? I mean, a 20 per cent tariff slapped on Australian exports, should this not be retaliated?

GALLAGHER: We don't support tariffs because it'll be the Australian people that pay for it and we don't want Australian people, we don't want households to pay more for things than they cost now. And that's what would happen. That's why we've been very clear in our arguments to the US that we don't support tariffs. Australia is and has been a huge beneficiary of open, free trade. We're a trading nation and it has benefited our economy and households have benefited from the cheaper prices. So, we don't support that. In terms of the broader question about a response, we've been working with the US. We've been arguing our case. We've been telling them what our position is, about our national interest and those things that we will never, ever negotiate on, and will have more to say once the White House has made its announcement.

JOURNALIST: Just back on tariffs, how much damage do you expect for 20 per cent tariffs to do to the economy? And how much of the Commonwealth spending on education is directly spent to schools, universities, childcare, frontline support in comparison to bureaucracy?

GALLAGHER: In terms of the impact, and it is a bit difficult with some hypotheticals about what it might look like. So, we'll deal with the facts when those are clear. I think it's less than 5 per cent of our goods are exported to the US, so it's not the biggest market for us, but it's an important one. And we stand with our farmers and our primary producers who have seen growth, particularly in the meat and livestock trade with the US. I think the greater risk to Australia and our economy, and I think you've heard people talk about this, the Treasurer certainly, I think the Governor of the Reserve Bank alluded to it yesterday -- is what happens as a result of this global trade instability. I think how that translates, how that works through and the impact on Australia, that would be the concern that we have. So, the uncertainty that's created, and that was the way, we were sort of all facing all that when we were putting our Budget together. So, we were mindful of that. And that's why the decisions we've taken here about how to support households domestically have been so important. Obviously, we'll have more to say once the US has announced its position early tomorrow morning.

JOURNALIST: [INDISTINCT]

CLARE: Funding for the department itself is less than $400 million. The funding that I'm provided as Education Minister to fund childcare and schools and universities is in the tens of billions of dollars. That's why Peter Dutton's going to come hunting for that money because he's going to need that money in order to build these $60 billion worth of nuclear reactors. That's where he's going to have to go. That's where he's going to have to go. Australians didn't make a mistake when they kicked the Morrison government out three years ago, and this would be a third term Morrison government. This would be Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison all over again. And Peter Dutton was one of the biggest cutters in that government, cutting funding for Medicare, cutting funding to health. And he'll do it all over again because he needs that money for the nuclear reactors.

JOURNALIST: Can I just ask one more question about the tariffs? When you're saying you are preparing for all possibilities tomorrow, there's clearly an expectation that Australia might again be targeted. Is the Government preparing an assistance package for any of the industries that are likely to be hit? For example, beef and other meat producers?

GALLAGHER: Well, the Trade Minister has been speaking with businesses, industry, farmers, as you would expect. This has been a very big piece of work before him for several months, as is the Foreign Minister, the Treasurer, the Deputy PM's been over there, and the Prime Minister. So, you can see the new administration has been clear about its policy. We've been clear we don't agree with that. We've been arguing our case. We think the trade relationship between America and Australia is mutually beneficial, but definitely beneficial to the US. And so, I mean it is difficult in the event of pre-empting an announcement from the US. But you would expect that we've been pretty focused on this, working with stakeholders and I'm sure that the PM and others will have more to say.

JOURNALIST: Minister Clare, I wanted to ask, what material risk do you think addressing indoctrination poses to students in the higher education sector and teachers?

CLARE: First, apologies. I made a mistake a minute ago. I said that these nuclear reactors will cost $60 billion. The truth is they cost $600 billion, and that's why this is so serious. This is the most expensive election policy that any party, Labor or Liberal, Government or Opposition, has ever put to the Australian people in the history of this country. $600 billion, these things are going to cost. They're not going to be built for 20 years. They're not going to turn a light on for 15 years. The Australian people are going to have to pay for them, start paying for them in five weeks' time if Peter Dutton is elected. That's why these cuts are real. That's why this is so serious. What is strange here is that Peter Dutton thinks that the real issues in education are indoctrination rather than making sure that more kids in Australia get a great education. Go back to James' question. What parents are asking is how do you make sure that my kid learns to read and write and count? How do you make sure that my kid gets a great education at the school around the corner? How do we make sure that all young people finish high school? I just think I'm not interested in fake fights here. I'm interested in making sure that every child in this country gets a great education. That's why we've cut the cost of childcare. That's why we're fully funding our public school. That's why we're fully funding non-government schools as well. This is the biggest investment in public school by any Australian government ever. It's not a blank cheque, it's tied to real reform to make sure that more young people get the education that they need and that their parents expect and deserve. And the fact that Peter Dutton is talking about indoctrination tells you that this bloke is all aggro. No answers, no idea. Just go back to the point I made a moment ago. This is straight out of the US. This is a cut and paste from the United States.

JOURNALIST: This morning Peter Dutton pegged the growth in the public service on Labor's relationship with the union movement. What does he mean by that?

GALLAGHER: Well, he would, now that he's having to explain his own policy, wouldn't he look for distractions? We've resourced the APS properly. We've been very methodical about it. We've gone to each department, we've done capability reviews, we've responded to Royal Commissions, two of which have happened into government systems, Robodebt and the Veterans' Royal Commission, which found the public service wanting. So, this has been a very thought-through piece of work. If we want veterans to get their claims, if we want people not to wait five hours in a phone queue or not be able to get their a pension processed, if we want Medicare payments processed within two days, if we want women who are escaping domestic violence to get their escaping violence payments quickly, what does it mean? What kind of staffing level do you need? And let's be upfront and clear about those public service jobs serving the public, not consultants and contractors off the books. They had a shadow workforce of 54,000 people when we came to government. They didn't even know how many they had. We had to count them for them. We had to do the piece of work. My first question when I became Public Service Minister was how many consultants and contractors and labour hire staff do we have in the public service? And nobody could answer it because nobody had ever counted it, because they were off the books. They're not reported in annual reports, they're not reported in the budget papers. So, departmental expenses went up, but staffing stayed the same. So, we are being honest, we are about outcomes to the Australian people and about having a public service that's able to do its job properly. It has absolutely nothing to do with the union. They are an important part of the employee-employer relationship, but this has been a decision of government by government to make sure that the Australian people get the service that they deserve and expect.

JOURNALIST: Just following off from Jane's question as well, at this point, do you and the Government know what the US government is intending with tariffs or have you not been informed?

GALLAGHER: Well, discussions are ongoing. I'm not a key player in that, as you would expect. The Trade Minister, Foreign Minister and others are in constant contact through the responsible channels. And that remains.

JOURNALIST: You referenced that Audit of Employment. That is the most comprehensive figure you have for the previous government's spending on consultants and contractors, but you haven't your own Audit of Employment. Is that fair for voters? That you aren't showing them the progress that you've made?

GALLAGHER: Well, we can be very clear. Of the new jobs, over a third of them are labour hire that's been converted to public service. So, that is clear. It's reported in the budget papers. That second piece of work hasn't been finished. I haven't been briefed on it yet. And I imagine that's probably pretty tricky in Caretaker now. But that's going to be an ongoing piece of work, but it's not a piece of work that's set with election timing. This is about how you can keep an eye on how you're rebuilding the public service. That's part of our APS reform agenda. We are very clear about what the size of the APS is. We are also clear, reporting about how many of those consultants and labour hire have been converted. And we're also being clear that we've made additional investments. I'm not pretending that we have like-for-like. We have increased the size of the public service because it wasn't able to do its job properly, and we've been very clear about that. And what I would say to Peter Dutton is come and explain how you are going to deliver services to the Australian people when you make 41,000 job cuts. And now they're saying they're not going to tell us that until after the election, we've had Ted O'Brien and Bridget McKenzie in the last 24 hours say, oh, that's something that we'll look at in government. Well, the pressure's on now. We're in the campaign. You've been saying this for two years, front up and tell people where these jobs are coming from, where they're going to be cut from, what impact it'll have on services, because we know they want to cut Medicare and they'll cut the education department, they'll cut Veterans' Affairs. Come and explain it, you can't just throw these claims out. Easy politics for Mr Dutton, perhaps, without justifying them, without explaining them, without saying why it won't take us back to the Robodebt era that he was a senior minister in.

JOURNALIST: The Opposition leader talks a lot about cutting the Canberra public service. We know that 41,000 is the figure they want to remove, but can you give us a sense of the entire public service, what percentage are actually in Canberra versus outside?

GALLAGHER: So, it's about just over a third in the ACT. And, so two-thirds are outside of the ACT. And in fact, the vast majority of the new jobs are outside the ACT. So ,when he talks about cutting 41,000 Canberra-based public servants, that would be 60 per cent of the entire APS in this town. When you think about that, PM&C, Treasury and Finance wouldn't even get up to 5,000. So, it would be whole departments abolished. Is that seriously his plan? And this is the plan he's not being upfront about. I mean, not only would it decimate my hometown and everybody who lives in it, but it would decimate services across the country. I mean, and this is why he's running away from answering any questions on it, because it doesn't stack up. He's going to do that. He will not be able -- you would not have a government if you sack 41,000 public servants.

JOURNALIST: [INDISTINCT]

GALLAGHER: Well, it's 20 per cent of the whole APS. So, if you think about all those jobs in Geelong and in Cairns and in little towns all over Australia, it would be 20 per cent of every single workplace he's saying he'll cut. But the bonus from his point of view is he's not going to tell you where. He's not going to tell you when. He'll wait until he gets into government and then he'll do it. And that is not acceptable. It's not acceptable for us to announce a policy and then not explain it, and the same standard should apply to him. I've challenged Senator Hume to come and have a debate with me in Canberra and explain, look people in the eye, look those families in the eye and say why they think 41,000 jobs should go. Crickets. I haven't heard a word from them, so I'll leave that in your capable hands.

JOURNALIST: How much would the public service grow in a second term Labor government? Or can you rule out an expansion?

GALLAGHER: Well, I've already been clear, I think through the Budget and the media I've done since, that I think the public service appropriately resourced now. There'll be ons and offs in that as you -- for example, with AUKUS, you would expect to see growth in the submarine agency. But you'll also see jobs, like in Services Australia where we've cleaned up a big piece of work, you see jobs coming off that project. So, there'll be movement around departments, but I think it's appropriately resourced now. It's taken three years to get here, and that's what's at risk. The risk is that we go back to what we inherited, which was a public service that wasn't able to do its job.

JOURNALIST: How many ancillary jobs are supported by the Canberra public service sector?

GALLAGHER: Well, it's our big employer in town. When you think about big employers in town, the APS is ours. And if you think of places like Wollongong with BHP in town and those kinds of employers, this is our hometown employer. So, the private sector has been built around the public sector here. But it would have impacts beyond private sector, public sector. It would have impacts on house prices. If you cut 41,000 jobs, the local economy would go into recession, businesses would close, schools would be challenged because people would move. So, we'd see a reduction in services across the board as well. You can't attack an employer, an employment base like that and not have massive consequences. And that's why this is a real risk, not just to the public service and its ability to do its job, but for jobs right around Australia and here in my hometown, the place I've always stood up for, it would be devastating. Thanks everyone.

ENDS