SENATOR THE HON KATY GALLAGHER
MINISTER FINANCE
MINISTER FOR WOMEN
MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE
MINISTER FOR GOVERNMENT SERVICES
E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TV INTERVIEW
ABC AFTERNOON BRIEFING
THURSDAY, 1 MAY 2025
SUBJECTS: Coalition’s flawed costings; Dutton’s cuts; nuclear power; polling; election campaign.
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: To get an immediate response to all of this, let's bring in the Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher. Katy Gallagher, welcome.
KATY GALLAGHER, MINISTER FOR FINANCE: Thanks for having me on, PK.
KARVELAS: The Coalition has outlined its costings this afternoon, same timeline that you did it when you were in Opposition. Of course, the way politics works is that you're already questioning elements here, but have they fessed up and explained? I mean, there's a nuclear figure in there. Can you see that they've kind of outlined what their approach will be, transparently?
GALLAGHER: Well, I think there's a lot of problems with their costings, and it's no surprise that they did do it on Thursday afternoon. And there is a difference there. PK, when we were releasing ours from Opposition, we were releasing our policies with costings attached or included in that. And so, we were being much more upfront than they've been prepared to be. But I think today has confirmed what we all knew, which is we'll see high taxes under the Liberals, savage cuts, and there's a lot of holes in their document that they've released this afternoon, including on nuclear, but also in the areas of APS and significant cuts to housing, skills and energy. And I think that's a real contrast between the responsible costings that Jim and I, the Treasurer and I, put out on Monday.
KARVELAS: So, you've questioned their nuclear figures, but there was quite a significant takedown of the critique that Labor's provided, the exaggerated figure of how much it would cost. Angus Taylor says it's $36 billion in the medium term. Why don't you accept that number?
GALLAGHER: Well, I think we have to go on what we've seen through the campaign. David Littleproud said from day one they would start building these nuclear reactors, even though they haven't wanted to talk --
KARVELAS: Well, everyone knows you can't do that. You can't do that. You need to change the laws.
GALLAGHER: Well, that is the commitment they made. That is their commitment, and they've been upfront about that. So, they said that, they haven't visited the sites, they don't want to talk about it. And I heard Angus Taylor there questioning the cost of nuclear. Just look at what is happening around the world. In Hinkley, a $35 billion nuclear reactor is over a decade late and costs $90 billion. And that's in a country where there is an existing nuclear industry of which we don't have here. So, I think it's just laughable to suggest that you don't need much more investment over the short term if you're actually going to genuinely build these nuclear reactors. So, they are either not committed to it or they're hiding the numbers from people because they're going to make savage cuts, including to Medicare, in order to pay for it.
KARVELAS: Well, their point is that you don't, the point that Angus Taylor just made there, is you don't show us your forecast over 10 years of how you're going to pay for things either. Isn't that a reasonable argument? I mean, they've given us the forecast in the medium term.
GALLAGHER: Well, we're not suggesting that taxpayers fund a whole new energy system, which is what they are suggesting. We have accounted for our investments in the energy -- of which they want to cut through their costings today -- and we've been very clear about that, including with the role that the private sector will play in investing in that renewable energy future. Now, this mob are wanting to build an entire new industry and bankroll it themselves because no one else will touch it. And they want us to believe that they're not going to have to cut other things to pay for it. And no surprise, they're handing out these costings in the afternoon of a day and a half before the election and after 5 million people have voted.
KARVELAS: Well, they've also made it clear that their budget bottom line will be better than yours. The first two years it won't be better, but then they turn it around. That is the proposition they're offering. I think it was a slight exaggeration, but essentially looking at the figures, Angus Taylor says they'll halve that deficit. Isn't that a better offer given the S&P warning that was actually just delivered this week about what it means for us potentially in our AAA credit rating and that being potentially at risk?
GALLAGHER: Well, for the group that have been complaining about government spending and inflation for the last three years, they're now spending more in the short term than what our costings do. So, bigger deficits, savage cuts. That is clear. And increased income taxes and other charges, quite a lot of charges that they're imposing through their costings today that they didn't draw attention to or want to talk about. So, high taxes, bigger deficits, and savage cuts. That's the costing document when I looked at it. And then, even if you just accept those three points, then you've got all these significant problems with other elements like the APS numbers, the cuts to the APS, which they've accounted for about $17 billion in cuts, but based on a whole lot of dodgy numbers that they can't deliver upon. So, I don't accept for a moment that their bottom line will be any better than -- in fact, it'll be much worse -- than the one that Jim and I handed down on Monday, which was careful, thoughtful, and very transparent about what we want to do over the next four years.
KARVELAS: Productivity growth in our country has clearly been a big issue. They want to get productivity growth of 1.5 per cent. Isn't that a worthy objective given the dire state our productivity has been in?
GALLAGHER: Well, if they were so concerned about productivity, why are they cutting skills? Why are they making students pay more for their HECS debt? Why are they turning their back on the renewable energy transition? I mean, these are three key areas where we need to invest in our people, invest in skills, invest in clean energy, invest in data and digital to drive the productivity agenda in the modern world. Every country when you look at it, has had issues with productivity as we undergo this economic transformation. But if they were so concerned about it, why all the cuts and why get rid of fee-free TAFE? Why refuse to invest in education? I mean, it just doesn't make sense and it doesn't add up. They say they want to be productivity, but then they outline absolutely no way of getting there. It's just been an exercise in smoke and mirrors. And the Australian people aren't mugs. They aren't mugs, and they're being treated like mugs by Angus Taylor and Jane Hume today.
KARVELAS: There's a lot of polling about, of course, the only poll that matters -- I'm going to say it for you so that you don't have to waste your time -- is the one on Saturday. I wanted to just get that over and done with. But I just want to get a sense --
GALLAGHER: I got it.
KARVELAS: I want to get a sense from you about some of this polling, including the YouGov polling, suggesting you're about to win a majority. Is that what you think? Is that how it feels on the ground to you?
GALLAGHER: PK, I think there's 156 local campaigns operating around the country. I think in a number of those areas, they're very, very tight contests. And I don't think anyone will know until all of the votes are counted. And we get some of those indications between 6:00 PM and 10:00 PM on Saturday night when we see what's happening. I think we've run a good campaign. I think the Prime Minister has showed the leadership he needs to, our policies are positive and going right to the issues that matter to Australians like Medicare and education and renewable energy, all of those. And I think they reflect issues that people have been talking about with me on the booth that when I've been travelling around. And I think it's a contrast between what the Opposition are modelling, are offering, which was shown in their costings today. Bigger deficits, savage cuts, and higher taxes. And I think I'll know when you know, PK. I mean, seriously, it's very, very tight in lots of seats. And the Australian people will decide on Saturday. We take nothing for granted, and you'll see all of us campaigning right up until 6:00 PM Saturday.
KARVELAS: So, is there a danger then, because there's so much psychology to all of this, and is there a danger for you? Are you feeling nervous that people might be feeling a little complacent both on your side and also perhaps in the electorate thinking, oh, well, Labor's going to win. Maybe they'll feel more comfortable putting a protest vote?
GALLAGHER: Well, I'm always nervous and anxious. I think that's me naturally anyway, but it's exacerbated during campaign --
KARVELAS: Same, same.
GALLAGHER: Yeah, it's good in a lot of ways. It means we're always on. But in campaigns that gets elevated and escalated. I don't think there's any complacency at all on the Labor side, we know how hard it is for Labor governments to win federally. We're all very passionate about the work we've done over the last three years together with the Australian people. And we're all really hopeful that we can secure enough support to continue that work. But the Australian people will decide, our job is to run a campaign that explains to people what we want to do, how we want to build a better future for Australia, and also draw the contrast between our Prime Minister and Peter Dutton and the threat that he poses, the risk he poses to Australia. And I think at the end of the day, the people of Australia will decide. But I think our campaign has been very much focused on building Australia's future.
KARVELAS: Thank you so much for joining us, Katy Gallagher. I think that's probably our last conversation until the other side, so I'll talk to you on the other side, whatever your role might be.
GALLAGHER: Okay, thanks PK.
ENDS
